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Happy Halloween! v1.6.2 has now been pushed to Steam, improving the overall stability and addressing many bugs and glitches. We are continuing to resolve any further issues which will be addressed in

Trying out version 1.6.2. new mud, using Zil 130, up my favourite test hill, without diff lock. It doesn't have this feature in the real life truck..

Я буду плакать от счастья!

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1 hour ago, Truckwolf said:

@oldman777 That's what the number after the colour is for. Increase it to make the headlights brighter. 
Like so:

Capture2.png.3a2a64bbea0d724c3cf499b603d3b807.png

Thank you, this is exactly what I need and it turned out to be easier than I thought.

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I did something similar like that but opposite to the night-time ambient light.  The original is unrealistically bright, like there's a spotlight shining from above the truck at all times.  I lowered the multiplier.  The night time & transition in and out of night time could still use some work.  I especially don't like the oval screen filter that attempts to simulate the limited visibility at night.  MR does this better.  Actually even the older ST (I think versions 1.4.x) had better looking nights than this.

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18 hours ago, Fairey Gannet said:

Nowadays I think though bigger maps could be beneficial, as our computers are faster and more capable.

Bigger maps could help but I don't think they are required to achieve a better map balance.  MR has these same legacy maps, but they've been reworked to have less mud and more lumber mills.  I actually think something between what MR and ST have would be ideal.

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4 hours ago, Unster said:

Bigger maps could help but I don't think they are required to achieve a better map balance.  MR has these same legacy maps, but they've been reworked to have less mud and more lumber mills.  I actually think something between what MR and ST have would be ideal.

True. But to be fair, MR is pretty easy. I play on hardcore exclusively, as I find making this kind of game easier would be really missing the point, and I had never any problem on any MR map. In fact, I completed all of them for one-star-achievement in C-256, road wheels 4x6. I actually never had to tow myself out. So while point limits were higher, overall difficulty I would say was average at best. I don't mind stight spots and difficult bits, as long as there is certain logic to them. MR I found to be smoother in overall difficulty - everything seemed more evenly distributed on the maps. But it was also kind of boring. 2nd notch of low range, diffs on, AWD off and you can plow forever. I think in that case balancing was downside, to me at least. Gameplay gained where excitement lost.

Now, less mud is fine, and I agree with that, There should be spots where even C-255 will get stuck axle deep, and there should be more roads accessible for less capable lorries. More mixed bag, if you ask me, would be more entertaining. However it is also my personal taste speaking, so take that into account. :)

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Trying out version 1.6.2. new mud, using Zil 130, up my favourite test hill, without diff lock. It doesn't have this feature in the real life truck..

Edited by Trackrod_ST
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18 hours ago, Fairey Gannet said:

True. But to be fair, MR is pretty easy.

To me, both games are too easy in their stock form.  I have the traction adjusted in both games for more realism.  But I agree ST on the same map is now tougher.  I play the Hill map in both games lately and the difference is clear.  It's not that the physics are tougher in one game than the other, but that MR's mud is less soft and prevalent in the map, allowing you to go faster.  That's why I said something between the two versions of the map would be ideal (to me).

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Hi, fellas! If anyone’s insterested in my thoughts and observations, here they are:

Regarding low fps: Oh, woe is me - I have a grand total of 10fps!
Trucks sink less now, right? Well from what I know about PenetrationDepth it requires more CPU power to keep things from sinking/clipping into each other. So I wonder if there’s a connection between the reduced sinking and lower fps.

Regarding the lake on Coast: Oh yeah, nice. To be honest I wouldn’t mind there being a certain type of mud which requires “this one trick” to get through - deflating the tires.
I tried to intentionaly bury the Ural - it took a lot of effort to get the wheels to sink in the mud to about 80% (just above the rims, and truck’s rear sank to above the hitch). I like it! In 1.6.1 it was just a liiiiitle too much.
While I was trying to bury the truck I actually found a little something that would have been more useful in 1.6.1. You know with difflock=off it’s easy to find yourself in a situation where the front wheels are spinning without traction and the rear wheels are completely without torque. Well I turned AWD off and all of the torque went to the rear wheels which allowed the truck to pull itself out of the mud. Interesting little trick!  In 1.6.1 Zil-130 and Maz-500 were actually performing better than 6x6 trucks without difflock due to the fact that they had all of their massive torque go to only one axle.

Regarding wheels spinning too fast: Sheesh, Kraz-255 in shallow soft mud spins it’s wheels super fast. It looks a little weird, kinda like an RC truck, rather than a 13ton vehicle.
And just as I was wondering how fast the wheels on a truck spin in RL Alexander Oblivin uploaded a video a few hours ago that shows him trying to ‘drift’ his Ural. He has just finished a  lengthy repair and took it out for ‘a spin’, literally.
Have a look, there’re good angles and shots of the wheels and it’s looks like they really do spin quite fast. I don't know if they would spin that fast in mud though... and what's with removing the cap anyway, I thought that Havok rigid bodies didn't like to spin at high speeds? Curious.

Timecodes:
8:26 - 11:15 - wide shots
11:15 - 15:40 - rear camera
16:40 - 20:30 - side camera
13:35 - wheels spin really fast
13:53 - wheels slip completely reaching very high rad/s.
17:24 - hitting the breaks at high speed

I thought that the breaks have become too strong, but after seeing this I’ve changed my mind.

Adjusting break strength:
So the line is: BrakeTorque=”x.x”
The default value for Kraz-255 is: 3 x 171719 /6 = 85859
I tried turning it down to 20,000 just to see if it works - and it does, 20,000 produce a smoother coming to a full stop on asphalt/tarmac.
Then I tried 5000 to see what will happen - and such a small value produces an undesirable effect.  I pressed “S” on the keyboard and reversed a couple of meters backwards. Then I pressed “W” to go forward. The truck came to a stop, but didn’t travel forwards. The engine was revving, but the truck didn’t move. At such a low value for break strength the game fails to recognise that the truck has came to a complete to stop before switching to moving forward.s A curious little thing, although nobody is going to use such values anyway.

Pulling a trailer in mud is very difficult:  I was wondering what Trackrod meant by that until I tried pulling a trailer through mud. The truck loses traction very quickly and the wheels start spinning. The chosen substance friction of “1.85” just isn’t enough. I set it back to “2.8” and I pulled it normally. At “1.85” an unloaded trailer (trailer_short_cart) brough c4310 to a crawl on a flat road. On a 10 degree muddy hill it brought it to a complete stop with awd and difflock on.

Adjusting tire deflation:  In 1.6.1 I didn’t like how deflated tires look. Like Unster put it “alien slime”.  So I went ahead and opened the wheels class files and increased the rim radius. If the wheel radius is 0.50 I set the RimRadius to 0.45 and this produced a very nice deflated look- the wheels didn’t spread out sideways like balloons and they were flat on the bottom.
That no longer works in 1.6.2 and adjusting RimRadius has no effect on tire deformation.  I’d prefer it to be able to tweak the cosmetic look.

Less grip for offroad tires:  I wonder what's the numeric value behind “offroad” now.

Overall less drag:  What does that mean?

Edited by Truckwolf
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@Truckwolf

Observations of your observations.

If you want real life, you can't split the  Ural transmission. It's AWD.

I'm doing the same job by blipping the throttle to transfer the torque from the spinning wheel, which causes the other wheels to jump forward. (AIRL).

The Kraz works much better unlocked than the Ural, especially with some tyre deflation, empty.

Your vid shows the truck wheelspin in a high gear.

Ural wheel speeds at full power are: 1st gear low range, 0.48 revs per sec. High gear high range: 6.3 RpS. It's the low gear high spin that looks wrong, but it can be controlled with easy throttle.

Don' forget. The game and real life are different.

..

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Trackrod_ST said:

Don' forget. The game and real life are different.

You always say that. 😀 But bit by bit a game turns into a simulator. Today we got tire inflation system, tomorrow perhaps will have power divider, different differentials, permanent 6x6, the works!

Hey, could please help me understand what does this mean, I am having some trouble wrapping my head around it:
"Wheel spin speed in mud was capped, preventing loss of torque when diff were unlocked."

So, was it previously capped and now it's uncapped?  And, um....was it being capped preventing the loss of torque? So now we are losing more torque....what, I don't understand this at all, what is this improving?

Edited by Truckwolf
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1 hour ago, Truckwolf said:

Hey, could please help me understand what does this mean, I am having some trouble wrapping my head around it:
"Wheel spin speed in mud was capped, preventing loss of torque when diff were unlocked."

So, was it previously capped and now it's uncapped?  And, um....was it being capped preventing the loss of torque? So now we are losing more torque....what, I don't understand this at all, what is this improving?

Good question.  As others I feel the game in 1.6.2 has the opposite now, where the wheel spin speed was actually uncapped and that's why we have this faster wheel spin.  Perhaps Zane meant the capping of the wheel spin was fixed/removed in 1.6.2, rather than put in.  That would more accurately described what we're seeing.

 

4 hours ago, Truckwolf said:

The chosen substance friction of “1.85” just isn’t enough. I set it back to “2.8” and I pulled it normally. At “1.85” an unloaded trailer (trailer_short_cart) brough c4310 to a crawl on a flat road.

From my tests in the Proving Ground, 1.85 is unrealistically high for deep mud.  Trucks' ability to climb out of mud pits is too much with that value.  That's why I use 1.3.  But you are probably right about the trailers.  I also felt it's very difficult to pull a trailer now.  But I think the answer isn't increasing the substance friction but to see if there's some excessive drag on the trailers and if it can be reduced.  They do act like they have their brakes on partially, like someone else said.

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Ah, yes, I know that you like your substance friction low, I still remember your suggested value of "0.3" back from around 1.3.7 was it.  I'll give your value a try. What do you think of PL's value of "5.4"? 😁 (it's from 1.4.5-1.5.1)

I looked at the trailer's xml file and it's wheels class files - there're no changes there. Which led me to believe that it's a combination of the lower grip for offroad tires and the lower substance friction.  Increasing both the wheels friction and substance friction helps with pulling the trailer. Since you like playing with lower substance friction have you ever noticed it making the trailers more difficult to pull in previous versions?

It's indeed possible that there's something weird going on with the trailers, with them not being player vehicles anymore and being put through the memory manager.  When they're just spawned they seem a little slow, like they're moving in slow motion for a second. But it's possible that I'm only noticing this now.

Speaking of drag...well...what is it? AIr ressistance? Is that a thing that's simulated in the game? What's that about there being less drag now?

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16 hours ago, Truckwolf said:



Hey, could please help me understand what does this mean, I am having some trouble wrapping my head around it:
"Wheel spin speed in mud was capped, preventing loss of torque when diff were unlocked."

So, was it previously capped and now it's uncapped?  And, um....was it being capped preventing the loss of torque? So now we are losing more torque....what, I don't understand this at all, what is this improving?

I was hoping you would tell me.

I'm taking it, that the higher revs available, allow more torque in each wheel, when they are not spinning. It certainly feels that way, but the downside is it doesn't look very good.

Using no diff up The Hill, hill, the Ural didn't make it with short logs, but the Kraz did, so I tried it with mediums and after 24 mins almost made it, until I ran out of fuel. Refuelled and after another 30 mins trying, I had to resort to diff lock to get the last few feet. (What a sensless waste of life). Ha ha.

..

 

20201105170738_1.jpg

Edited by Trackrod_ST
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29 minutes ago, Truckwolf said:

Since you like playing with lower substance friction have you ever noticed it making the trailers more difficult to pull in previous versions?

No, the trailers felt fine in the older versions with my 0.3 substance friction.  Keep in mind that with the new physics the values can't be compared anymore.  What 1.85 feels like today would most likely be very different with the old physics.  It's also worth noting that my old friction of 0.3 was in combination with less mud resistance, so it wasn't as hopeless as it may sound to you.  I doubt anything was done to the trailers specifically in this physics overhaul.  What's probably happening is that with the new physics it's easier for tires, especially offroad tires, to break through the mud surface as the trailer pulls back on the accelerating truck.

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On 11/5/2020 at 9:09 PM, Trackrod_ST said:

I was hoping you would tell me

Oh I just don't know, this is something on the code side of things. I've been meaning to open the .exe file and look what's inside since 1.3.6, but I've been procrastinating on that one for a long time now. Perhaps we can learn something from there. Localhost did it on his own before working for Oovee so it's certainly doable. If we can find something about the torque repartition and this 'wheel spin speed' it'll certainly help us understand what we're seeing right now.  I don't know what's inside, but there's certainly a lot, considering how many ST+ features came from it.

Hmmm, I am thinking again about the removal of the speed limit on wheels. For so many years a player would come along asking "why can't the trucks go any faster?" and the answer always was that the wheels are just a type of Havok rigid body. They can't spin too fast otherwise they start going weird. The game had several speed limiters and now all of a sudden the limit on rotation is uncapped. I wonder why, what's changed about the wheels - and something certainly has changed, and it's causing havok explosions right now 😀
I've been looking at kraz-255's fully deflated tires spinning quickly on 2nd and 3rd gear and they started looking inflated again after reaching a certain velocity.

@Unster Hey, um, pardon me If I am mistaken, but didn't you say you worked in the software industry? Can you give me a tip/advice about opening the .exe?  Do you think there'll be anything useful in there or am I just going to waste my time?

Regarding the substance friction: Yup, yup, I know, I know and I tried your values with the lowered LinRes and substance friction, and I know exactly how hopeless it was 😀  Ha ha, nah, I 've read through all of your posts about mud, I know what you were trying to achieve with deep mud and you did it.  It's not my cup of tea though.

On 11/5/2020 at 9:09 PM, Trackrod_ST said:

What a sensless waste of life

 Ha ha, tell me about it. I spent 50 minutes in one hole with Kraz-255 without difflock. After I finally managed to get out, It felt soooo satisfying!

Edited by Truckwolf
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9 minutes ago, Truckwolf said:

Hey, um, pardon me If I am mistaken, but didn't you say you worked in the software industry? Can you give me a tip/advice about opening the .exe?  Do you think there'll be anything useful in there or am I just going to waste my time?

I'd say it's a waste of time (I still am a software engineer) to try to open an exe file.  That is the compiled source code, basically 0's and 1's.  You might get little pieces of information out of it at most like text strings, but probably nothing that will provide a good explanation.  Even the human-readable source code, which is what programmers work with before it's compiled into an exe or dll, may not reveal what the logic is if the code is complex and poorly documented, and of course this code is not available to the general public as it's the intellectual property of the company that wrote it.

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Hmmm, alright then. I wonder how Localhost did it back then - he opened the .exe file, looked at havok's documentation and boom - fixed the wheelmass bug.  What a talented and resourceful fella, If Zane had another three of him....boy oh boy!

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51 minutes ago, Truckwolf said:

Hmmm, alright then. I wonder how Localhost did it back then - he opened the .exe file, looked at havok's documentation and boom - fixed the wheelmass bug.  What a talented and resourceful fella, If Zane had another three of him....boy oh boy!

You mean in ST+?  It was never fixed in the game itself, even long after LH started working for Oovee.  Makes you wonder why.  I think it's because ST+ was a bunch of hacks, maybe some of them good but others not so much.  Even working directly with the source code hasn't been a smooth ride for ST, as we clearly saw over the past year.  But I'm glad the game is now quite stable.  1.6.2 may be the best version yet.  1.6.1 was one of the worst, on par with the 1.4.x stuttering mess & broken crane camera.

Edited by Unster
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Yep. And it's halfway through fixed in the game. The mudsinking is fixed, but It has been replaced with another bug that causes light wheels to vibrate = spin really fast...which....ha haaaa...which makes the removal of the wheel spin cap all the more curious. It's almost like that meme "Yo, I heard your light wheels were spinning really fast, so I made all of your wheels spin really fast."😁

I was rather pleasantly suprised when I saw that line about the superheavy wheels in the changelog. So Zane is reading through our reports and attemps to explode his game.

Let's check what's the current status on the wheelmass bug. As we know it's no longer about sinking, it's about light wheels spinning really fast. Let's change kraz_front to "Light" and see what happens.  Oh dear...
explosion.thumb.png.f019d5f288cdb5b8de4d4a8f3071bbdb.png

M'kay. Now there's a proper havok explosion.
So after that I changed the wheels to superheavy - and indeed they no longer give such a drastic advantage. I also wanted to see if that'll have any effect on how fast the wheels would spin. Perhaps just a tiny bit, the wheels on the rearmost axle still spin really fast. There's a lot of mud splashing (particles) flying around and the hot particle effect would still appear quite often. Then I spawned a trailer and pulled it across the bog on the proving ground.  Without difflock the wheels spun fast, but not too fast, the trailer still seemed a little difficult to pull.  Only with difflock=on and fully deflated tires did Kraz-255 pull it's unloaded 2ton trailer with confidence.   (meanwhile (link to youtube video) )

Edited by Truckwolf
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@TruckwolfWell as I said earlier, the problem isn't so much with the physics as it is with the terrain type in the legacy ST maps.  90+% of the maps are like a freshly plowed field.  So given the terrain, the trailer towing behavior is probably close to realistic.  IRL I think it's more common even on forestry roads to have more compacted soil, usually with a thin layer of slick mud on the top if it has rained recently.

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One thing that can be done to reduce trailer and non-driven wheel resistance is to lower the PushResistance.  Of course you also need to reduce the friction otherwise your trucks will be OP.  I'm still playing with the values, but these seem pretty good so far:

            PushResistance="0.2"
            SubstanceFriction="0.4"

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Looks like you've solved it.  C4310 with unloaded trailer_short_cart will actually perform better at "0.2" PushResistance and "0.4" SubstanceFriction, rather than "1.0" PushResistance and "3.0" SubstanceFriction.  How strange.


(edit)
At PushResistance "1.0"  SubstanceFriction has to be at least "4.0" to achieve the same performance. (the same speed and ease when pulling a trailer)

Edited by Truckwolf
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6 hours ago, Truckwolf said:

Looks like you've solved it.  C4310 with unloaded trailer_short_cart will actually perform better at "0.2" PushResistance and "0.4" SubstanceFriction, rather than "1.0" PushResistance and "3.0" SubstanceFriction.  How strange.


(edit)
At PushResistance "1.0"  SubstanceFriction has to be at least "4.0" to achieve the same performance. (the same speed and ease when pulling a trailer)

What I also like about these settings is that it's fairly easy to fall deep into mud (where it is deep) and get stuck, as it should be.  With the stock settings it's too easy to climb out of mud pits, and if you changed the friction to 4 I imagine it would be ridiculously easy.

Edited by Unster
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как мне кажется, лучшевсего был взять основу версии 03. 03.16, переодеть её в графику 1.6.2, добавить изменения с камерой, дальность прорисовки, остальное (грязь, крутящие моменты и прочее) не трогать. И давно пора обновить редактор !!!!! И что это за баги с лебёдкой? Стоит прицепиться к другому грузовику - машина трансформируется и переворачивается !!! Среди постоянных игроков (играющих с 2014 года всё это время) есть мнение, что игра, начиная с 1.4.2 и дальше становится хуже. Разработчики обновляют игру не так, как хочется игрокам. Прислушайтесь к игрокам.  

Edited by Bazileka
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