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@Trackrod_ST

wow Your list is very informative. Thanks.

I thought the Uaz 469 has at least one lockable X axle. Also striking that many trucks has no X axle difflock.

Is the game engine able to handle all the different variants?

 

Even my Audi quattro has a inter axle diff lock and a lockable rear X axle. All manually in two stages. And this is really not a offroad vehicle.

1. Stage: inter axle is locked

2. Stage: inter axle and rear X axle are locked 

But i could flip it around by just moving two vacuum lines on the switch for more drift fun :D 

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Hello, Rather than posting in each thread individually, here's a global thread to say thank you for reporting the issues you may have found. We acknowledge them and we are busy fixing them right

Good news, fellas! 🙂 I contacted Zane and here is his reply. The bold and comment in italic are mine.    

Another news: Soon the snow will fall in Russia.

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@ Eversman

 

Only the 66 and 535/7 have similar drives to our game full diff locks.

At the other end of the game scale, no locks, is similar to the AWD, Ural, Kamaz and Audi with unlocked diffs for road use, and useless off road, but with locks, become similar to the first group in 6 WD.

The first group, is in between the two systems.

The Uaz is similar to my L 200, except that I have the luxury of rear LSD.

The 535, has a very interesting system.

"Is the game engine able to handle all the different variants?"

Are the community able to handle all the different variants?

 

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Edited by Trackrod_ST
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@Trackrod_STHello! Are you Silent Hunter on Discord? Perhaps this might interest you, although it seems you already know your differentials quite well.
These are the instructions for locking the differntials on Ural's website: (LINK)


1). Diffs should only be locked when the truck is not moving

2). When diffs are locked the truck can only drive straight and the wheels should not be steered left and right

3). When diffs are locked the truck can only go at minimal speed <10km/h

4). When diffs are locked the wheels should not be allowed to spin/slip in the mud

5). Driving with locked differentials on hard roads and tarmac is strictly prohibited.

 

 

So that's what I've been doing whenever I've locked the differentials, going with minimal speed, not turning the wheels and only locking them in mud.  Is this a more realistic way to play?
 

Can I run something by you, please, just to make sure I understand it correctly? 
So Ural-4320 has open diffs - meaning that the left and right wheels on a single axle can't be locked together, yes? 
But it has a transfer case with an asymmetric locking differential - which in different terms is an inter-axle power divider, yes?
And this means that when you lock Ural's differential the torque will be divided between the front and rear axles equally*, but you'd still get the one wheel spinning effect if one of the wheels loses traction, correct?  (* well, it's asymmetric - it divides torque between the front and rear axles in 1:2 ratio)
With that in mind, If one of the wheels on the rearmost axle is spinning freely in the air - the other wheel on the rearmost axle will lose all torque, right?  But what about the other axles? Will all 6 wheels lose torque, because one wheel is spinning in the air?


Thank you for taking the time to explain things to me. Apologies for the heap of questions.

Edited by Truckwolf
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@Truckwolf

No, not me.

Those instructions are for the modern Ural/Kamaz trucks, some of which have x axle diffs and are the same form of operation as  our game trucks. In real life our older trucks don't have those type of diffs. They are for extreme use only.

 

17 hours ago, Truckwolf said:

@Trackrod_STHello! Are you Silent Hunter on Discord? No. Perhaps this might interest you, although it seems you already know your differentials quite well.
These are the instructions for locking the differntials on Ural's website: (LINK)


1). Diffs should only be locked when the truck is not moving

2). When diffs are locked the truck can only drive straight and the wheels should not be steered left and right

3). When diffs are locked the truck can only go at minimal speed <10km/h

4). When diffs are locked the wheels should not be allowed to spin/slip in the mud

5). Driving with locked differentials on hard roads and tarmac is strictly prohibited.

 

 

So that's what I've been doing whenever I've locked the differentials, going with minimal speed, not turning the wheels and only locking them in mud.  Is this a more realistic way to play? Yes.
 

Can I run something by you, please, just to make sure I understand it correctly? Yes
So Ural-4320 has open diffs - meaning that the left and right wheels on a single axle can't be locked together, yes? Yes
But it has a transfer case with an asymmetric locking differential - which in different terms is an inter-axle power divider, yes? Yes.
And this means that when you lock Ural's differential the torque will be divided between the front and rear axles equally*, Yes, but you'd still get the one wheel spinning effect if one of the wheels loses traction, correct? No.  (* well, it's asymmetric - it divides torque between the front and rear axles in 1:2 ratio) Yes.
With that in mind, If one of the wheels on the rearmost axle is spinning freely in the air - the other wheel on the rearmost axle will lose all torque, right? Yes.  But what about the other axles? Will all 6 wheels lose torque, because one wheel is spinning in the air? No.

With the diff unlocked for road use, there is equal traction to all road wheels. Off road, if one front wheel gets zero traction, then all wheels get zero traction.

With the diff locked, 3 axles are locked. 1 wheel spins, 1 axle is lost. This will throw more load onto the remaining axles, so more wheels could spin. This is where, the get you out of the ****, cross axle diff would come into play, if you had them.


Thank you for taking the time to explain things to me. Apologies for the heap of questions.

 

Edited by Trackrod_ST
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Thank you, that's very interesting! Hopefully, this will eventually be simulated in the game. We should ask Zane if he has any plans about it, after 1.6.2 is released, of course.

Edited by Truckwolf
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@Truckwolf

 

Interestingly.

As you probably know, the Zil 157, was inspired by the American lease lend 2.5 tonner of WW2.

Some of those trucks, used by the US Marines, were fitted with rear cross axle auto lockers. These were locked in normal use and unlocked when cornering, completely automatically. These are still sold today as 'Detroit Lockers' and is a similar system used in the 2 rear axles of the Maz 537.

 

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Thank you for taking the time to share an interesting fact with me! I appreciate it! I am always interested to learn new stuff about the game and the trucks in real life.   I have some interesting things to share as well!

I've read through E.Konchev's encyclopedia. Here's what I've found:

Zis-151 was made in 1944 based on Studebaker US6.U4.  The Studebaker had a transfer case with inter axle differential.
(раздаточная коробка с межосевым дифференциалом) (Google translate incorrectly translates it to cross axle)
cross axle - межколесный (between the wheels)
inter axle - межосевой  (between the axles)
There's no mention of cross axle auto locking diffs. Zis-151 itself doesn't seem to have inherited the differentials.
Two further experimetnal variants however had:
Zis-121B - had "блокировкой всех дифференциалов"  I don't know what does that mean...the ability to lock all differentials, so, like the all wheel lock that we have in game?
Zis-128 - had locking differentials. So the ability to lock all cross axle differentials? 
Zis-128 didn't go into production, but became an experimental base for Zil-131.

And according to E.Konchev none of this went into Zil-157, there's absolutely mention of any differential locking in Zil-157.
However, I found an article that says the following:  (LINK)
Google translate (no errors): "The middle and rear axles are always leading and connected to each other without a differential. Thus, the ZIL-157 had constant inter-axle blocking everywhere. There were no cross-wheel locks. It was then believed that they  give only a slight increase in cross-country ability, and therefore are not needed on cars with more than two axles."

The article has it's sources listed and literally none of them mentions anything about differential locks.

So ZIl-157 is another truck in dire need of a power divider? It's my favourite truck, well, the mail.ru version one - ZIl-157KD made by RedPow running now on it's fourth edition by Truckist. It's old tires however do not deflate, and without a power divider as soon as you go up a slope the middle axle lifts off the ground and the whole truck stops dead in it's tracks. I had tons of fun with it up to 1.5.1, but now in 1.6.x I can hardly get anywhere with it.  Not to mention that Truckist has tweaked it in complete disregard for the wheelmass bug, he wanted addons to put a realistic load on the suspension therefore he made an 800kg kung weight 3,250 tons. So now it's rear wheels punch through the surface instantly and dig massive ruts.


The second thing that I want to share is regarding the unusually easy sinking of trucks carrying medium logs. Ural-4320 is not the only truck that does that. Kamaz-4310 also does it, look at this mess:
4310_sunken.thumb.png.5ebd413227e2ec8de6c5b710bbef120a.png

I speculated that it's something to do with Ural's thinner wheels, but I don't think that's the case anymore. I think that it's actually the weight distribution and the fact that the medium logs put 8000 tons on the rear of the truck. Ural-4320 has it center of mass pulled -0.6 backwards towards the rear wheels. So that's more than half of the trucks weight + 2000 tons ural_cart + 8000 medium logs load.  In 1.5.1 all of that was distributed among all of the wheels. Now in 1.6.x that weight is distributed more towards the rear wheels, which it seems is quite enough to exceed the yield strength.
This is just my theory, of course. I can't seem to remember how to turn the TWOW reader. Can somebody remind me how to do it? ST+'s debugger now only gives normalised suspension values?  Help?
(edit: although wheels must play a role too. Kraz-255 doesn't have this problem with it's "0.52" wheel width, where kamaz_offroad are "0.37")

But there's more! I finally made it to the other side of the lake on Coast! And none of the wheels even scratched the surface!   Guess what did the trick? Deflating the tires!  I fully deflated the tires, locked the diffs and slowly and surely made it across the lake without any problems, taking a mere 7 points of water damage.  I totally forgot about CTIS, but there you have it, it's a life saver now!
4320_deflated.thumb.png.d8bd6fab6cd23dd8e1f7f0fc1a289c6a.png

Notice how the surface is completely intact.

And finally, there's actually a little something else that I've found. I stumbled across Create 3d bucket's Artstation profile. There's a gorgeous screenshot of Zil-157 there....but with it's original wheels! What happened to those beauties, why were they replaced with kamaz wheels?  Curious. (LINK)

Thank you for reading yet another long post.

Edited by Truckwolf
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53 minutes ago, Truckwolf said:


And finally, there's actually a little something else that I've found. I stumbled across Create 3d bucket's Artstation profile. There's a gorgeous screenshot of Zil-157 there....but with it's original wheels! What happened to those beauties, why were they replaced with kamaz wheels?  Curious. (LINK)

C3DB write that Oovee edit models and textures as they see fit. I'll send you a bit later how the models looked before they were "edited" Oovee.

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I was finally convinced that Oovee has nothing to do with game development at all. They are simply looking for where it is cheaper to buy something in order to sell it at a higher price. This has been happening since the Raiworks.

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Oh, come oooon! 😀 It's just a 3d model. Pavel too bought the original models from other 3d artists. There's a guy on Steam that actually found the original authors on TurboSquid -> (LINK)

Kraz-255 is made by Rambooze. (LINK)
"This model I made for the game Spin Tires made by my friend Pavel. "

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10 hours ago, Truckwolf said:


And according to E.Konchev none of this went into Zil-157, there's absolutely mention of any differential locking in Zil-157.
However, I found an article that says the following:  (LINK)
Google translate (no errors): "The middle and rear axles are always leading and connected to each other without a differential. Thus, the ZIL-157 had constant inter-axle blocking everywhere. There were no cross-wheel locks. It was then believed that they  give only a slight increase in cross-country ability, and therefore are not needed on cars with more than two axles."

The article has it's sources listed and literally none of them mentions anything about differential locks.

So ZIl-157 is another truck in dire need of a power divider? It's my favourite truck, well, the mail.ru version one - ZIl-157KD made by RedPow running now on it's fourth edition by Truckist. It's old tires however do not deflate, and without a power divider as soon as you go up a slope the middle axle lifts off the ground and the whole truck stops dead in it's tracks. I had tons of fun with it up to 1.5.1, but now in 1.6.x I can hardly get anywhere with it.  Not to mention that Truckist has tweaked it in complete disregard for the wheelmass bug, he wanted addons to put a realistic load on the suspension therefore he made an 800kg kung weight 3,250 tons. So now it's rear wheels punch through the surface instantly and dig massive ruts.
 

 

The Zil 157 doesn't need a power divider. It has a 4/6 wheel divider the same as the 131. Only AWD 6x6 need the inter axle locker (power divider). The Zil in 6 WD, is exactly the same as the Ural with inter diff locked.

They all have the 2 rear bogies permanantly coupled with 1 propshaft and drive together. This means that if the rear axle is suspended in mid air, you won't lose drive to the middle axle and vice versa.

This is where the problem starts.

Commercial trucks with double drive bogies, have a power divider between the axles, to prevent excessive wear and fuel consumption due to axle wind-up. If the rear axle becomes suspended, all drive will be lost. The IA diff is then locked and you drive away. For some trucks without an IAD, the Detroit Locker will solve this problem.

This is what we have in game, which of course is completely incorrect, because our trucks rears should be permanently locked together.

Edited by Trackrod_ST
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@Trackrod_STWhat I meant to say was that Zil-157 needs in the game whatever is has in real life.  I've set it's difflocktype to "none" and I assumed that it's realistic the way it is. No locking cross axle differentials, no inter axle differentials - nothing. But apparently that is not the case and whatever it has in real life it now sorely misses in 1.6.x. I hope that this will eventually be put in the game, In a distant brighter future. 🙂

In 1.5.1 I've climbed the steepest hill on Psix's proving ground with Zil-157KD without diffs, with 3,250 ton kung and with 49,000 motor. How come it was so good in 1.5.1, but It now instantly dies on a 15 degrees slope? 


How do you know so much about soviet trucks? Where do you get your info from? Can you recommend me a book, please? (trucks, mechanics, etc)

Edited by Truckwolf
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So. I decided to go deep into the search for problems. Some of them are already known, but I will still document them and throw them here. I am sure that these are not all problems.

Here's what I discovered yesterday:

1) Any car, sooner or later, can just stand on a flat surface. The strangeness here is not only that the car does not go on the surface, where, according to the logic, it should go, but also that if you put the car on the handbrake, the front wheels start spinning. I think everyone will agree that the car should go here without blocking, and the wheels should spin all together, and not depend on the hand brake.

2) Here, I think, no comment. Under certain conditions, 133 may not consume fuel at all (when the car is stationary, this does not count). Cool. In fact, this can happen not only with this model of transport, I will look more.

3) Cars do not stand in the mud, they slide in it. Also, the wheels can spin endlessly. This is best seen in the example of 469, he suffered the most (Perhaps the B-80 will also float in the mud, I have not tested it). Why is this happening, I do not understand. The car does not go, although it should go, and while standing still, it begins to slide endlessly. This is clearly not a problem of low engine power or weight of the car.

 

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@Alex CameronЗдравствуйте!

1). That's the thing we've been discussing. The game doesn't model the transfer case, inter axle differentials, nothing, hence this behaviour. Right now locking the differentials has become pretty much mandatory, it's not optional.

2). This is the result of the new fix that addressed the fact that fuel consumption increased with grip. The higher the friction value in a wheel's xml file the higher the fuel consumption.
It doesn't seem like that much of a problem to me, and you're going downhill after all. The fuel consumption is not really 0.0, but it's very small (<1.0).
I think that this is  intentional and much better than what we had previously, where the faster you're going the higher the fuel consumption will become. You can accelerate down a highway and let go of the gas and the truck will still consume 50 l/min.

3). Fix your mud stats in media.xml.  The truck is sliding backwards due to the high LinResistance and the wheels are bouncing up and down and it seems like the truck is floating in the air due to the very high PushResistance.


I guess that at this point we've reported just about everything. The problem is that nobody is reading through our reports and observations right now. Hopefully Zane will get around to reading through this 9 pages long thread, but, honestly, I doubt it. If we want him to comment we should prepare very short and concise questions and ask him on Discord. But this will have to happen after 1.6.2's release. We should see first what's fixed in 1.6.2.

I'm glad you joined the discussion, that thing with the handbrake was very interesting to see.

Edited by Truckwolf
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@Alex Cameron

I've already explained the rear axle problem, but with regards to the handbrake, this is situated just behind the transfer box on the propshaft. When you brake, it is transfering the wheelspin in the rear, to the front axle as if it had a diff.

Don't relate everything to RL. It's a game. One size fits all.

 

..

Edited by Trackrod_ST
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21 hours ago, Truckwolf said:

@Trackrod_STWhat I meant to say was that Zil-157 needs in the game whatever is has in real life.  I've set it's difflocktype to "none" and I assumed that it's realistic the way it is. No locking cross axle differentials, no inter axle differentials - nothing. But apparently that is not the case and whatever it has in real life it now sorely misses in 1.6.x. I hope that this will eventually be put in the game, In a distant brighter future. 🙂

In 1.5.1 I've climbed the steepest hill on Psix's proving ground with Zil-157KD without diffs, with 3,250 ton kung and with 49,000 motor. How come it was so good in 1.5.1, but It now instantly dies on a 15 degrees slope? 


How do you know so much about soviet trucks? Where do you get your info from? Can you recommend me a book, please? (trucks, mechanics, etc)

I'm using mostly technical manuals from Scribd book club, but here is a good place to start.

https://www.russianmilitarytrucks.com/downloads.htm

 

..

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hello, I`m having some issues with GPU load and FPS drops. I`ve noticed that in some parts of the map (for example proving ground) the gpu is using its maximum and in some place it does not.
I`ll attach a video confirming that and a steam topic below
Looking forward for your reply :)
https://steamcommunity.com/app/263280/discussions/

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On 11/25/2020 at 6:18 PM, Alex Cameron said:

I know that everyone has already written about this problem, but almost no one was able to show with examples what exactly this is happening.
I will open your eyes, comrades! It's not about the graphics, it's about the new physics of dirt. I don't know if this can be optimized somehow, but so far things are as follows:
If the car is on the asphalt, the FPS will not fall, but if the car drives into the mud, we get what you see in the video:

The more wheels are in the mud and the more swampy the terrain, the greater the load on your PC.
Simply put, if 10 cars FLY over the swamp, there will be no loss of frame rate, but as soon as they all fall into this swamp, trouble occurs...

Dirt roads that do not collapse do not strain your PC, much in the same way as asphalt.

 

40 minutes ago, DanVi said:

Hello, I`m having some issues with GPU load and FPS drops. 
Looking forward for your reply :)

 

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