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This is what I miss in 1 6 1.

The ability to rock your way out of a hole and the lack of decent steering lock, to swing the nose back and forth.

2015 vid. From 3' 45''.

Not enough friction to do it now.

..

 

 

 

Edited by Trackrod_ST
Re phrased it..
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Hello, Rather than posting in each thread individually, here's a global thread to say thank you for reporting the issues you may have found. We acknowledge them and we are busy fixing them right

will this version come this century? Otherwise i will ask my grandson in the future if there are still no medium or long logs at the kiosk.

I think there is big room for tuning settings. There are lot of people using their settings. Community did big step forward in this direction. And devs\management successfully ignored that. It's a sha

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1 hour ago, Trackrod_ST said:

This is what I miss in 1 6 1.

The ability to rock your way out of a hole, due to lack of friction and the lack of decent steering lock, to swing the nose back and forth.

From 3' 45''.

https://youtu.be/gWGS_2JKMJE

I don't remember this ever being a thing in the game, but I wish it was, it would make getting stuck more interesting, rather than just "I use winch"

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Guys, the setting you are talking about are inside the file Media.xml in the Media.zip archive inside the installation folder of the game.

The current settings in 1.6.1 are these:
FullPushDepth="1.2"
LinResistance="1.0"
PushResistance="1.0"
SubstanceFriction="0.85"
 

The previous ones where these:
FullPushDepth="1.2"
LinResistance="7.0"
PushResistance="36.0"
SubstanceFriction="2.2"
 

The settings that are really affecting the behaviour of the car are LineResistance and PushResistance. If you reduce these to 0, you can pass over the mud without even selecting "All Wheels". These settings in the current build have a very high effect compared to the previous build. The devs know this and that's why they reduced them so much (to 1.0 from 7.0 and 36.0).

But the current setting (1.0) is still too high.

They changed something else in the game physics, not only the media.xml settings.

Devs, please, look a these two settings. It's not the friction the problem. It's in LineResistance and PushResistance. There is something that is making these two settings very strong despite their reduced numeric value.

 

Edited by barabba
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13 hours ago, PressureLine said:

As you can see it's just a few relatively minor 'tweaks' to the substance settings that drastically change the game

It's not that simple to fix.  The physics have undergone  a big change and it wasn't just a change in the media.xml values.  I can already tell you without even trying your numbers that deep mud will be ridiculously easy with your settings, especially with AWD and diff lock.  It already is with the stock settings.  So maybe your settings improve traction in shallow mud but I bet deep mud is even farther off than it already is.

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3 hours ago, Unster said:

It's not that simple to fix.  The physics have undergone  a big change and it wasn't just a change in the media.xml values.  I can already tell you without even trying your numbers that deep mud will be ridiculously easy with your settings, especially with AWD and diff lock.  It already is with the stock settings.  So maybe your settings improve traction in shallow mud but I bet deep mud is even farther off than it already is.

You know that deep mud and shallow mud behave exactly the same in the game, right? No amount of tweaking can fix that.

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1 hour ago, DeltΔV said:

You know that deep mud and shallow mud behave exactly the same in the game, right? No amount of tweaking can fix that.

That's essentially been my point over the past 2 weeks. Maybe not exactly the same, but there's not enough difference.  Sounds familiar?

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Thanks PressureLine! I just gave your settings a try. I tried the b157 - with the default settings it couldn't even move. Now I took it to the Hill map and had lots of fun with it. With those settings the default trucks work and the Sherp works too. Brilliant!
The game went from unplayable to awesome. I can now see that the game is indeed going in the right direction. It just needs a little tuning up.

I'd also like to thank the developers for moving the DayTimeStates out of media.xml into a template - very convenient!

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2 hours ago, Truckwolf said:

Thanks PressureLine! I just gave your settings a try.

I just tried them as well.  As I predicted, the settings improve shallow mud traction.  It's actually pretty good.  But it does nothing to fix deep mud traction.  My half-buried C-255 can still climb out.

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In general, because it's a game, and 99% of the playerbase are not hardcore fanatics, setting the bar of "realism" at "one of the most capable offroad trucks in the game needs to be able to get fully bogged on a regular basis" is unlikely to please the overwhelming majority of players (who are currently almost universally complaining that the 1.6.x mud is too difficult to get through).

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2 hours ago, PressureLine said:

In general, because it's a game, and 99% of the playerbase are not hardcore fanatics, setting the bar of "realism" at "one of the most capable offroad trucks in the game needs to be able to get fully bogged on a regular basis" is unlikely to please the overwhelming majority of players (who are currently almost universally complaining that the 1.6.x mud is too difficult to get through).

Totally agree, and thanks for your solution.

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2 hours ago, PressureLine said:

In general, because it's a game, and 99% of the playerbase are not hardcore fanatics, setting the bar of "realism" at "one of the most capable offroad trucks in the game needs to be able to get fully bogged on a regular basis" is unlikely to please the overwhelming majority of players (who are currently almost universally complaining that the 1.6.x mud is too difficult to get through).

Nah.  There's nothing wrong with properly distinguishing deep mud behavior from shallow mud.  The deep mud we have now in ST is easier than in SnowRunner, a game that's very popular and more geared toward casual players.  So no, ST can do better.  If ST doesn't have proper physics soon, I don't know what role it can have in the market.  SR has already captured the market with graphics and gameplay for casual players.  ST's only chance for success is to cater to people who appreciate full realism.

If trucks are getting bogged down too often in deep mud pits, the solution is to reduce/remove the mud pits, not make the trucks into some fantasy super trucks.

Edited by Unster
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1 hour ago, Unster said:

Nah.  There's nothing wrong with properly distinguishing deep mud behavior from shallow mud.  The deep mud we have now in ST is easier than in SnowRunner, a game that's very popular and more geared toward casual players.  So no, ST can do better.  If ST doesn't have proper physics soon, I don't know what role it can have in the market.  SR has already captured the market with graphics and gameplay for casual players.  ST's only chance for success is to cater to people who appreciate full realism.

If trucks are getting bogged down too often in deep mud pits, the solution is to reduce/remove the mud pits, not make the trucks into some fantasy super trucks.

image.png.208b5049fdbdef3cc914aa5f1ad7216c.png

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3 hours ago, Unster said:

If trucks are getting bogged down too often in deep mud pits, the solution is to reduce/remove the mud pits, not make the trucks into some fantasy super trucks.

You have never driven Russian trucks in the 80s, unlike me. And you've never seen Russian mud. Why are you making your statements with such confidence?

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3 hours ago, Trackrod_ST said:

This stuff is like grease. It doesn't have to be deep to get you stuck.

Yup.  That's why it's so ridiculous when an ST truck with the bumper below the mud line just plows through the mud.  Last time I checked this game is supposed to be an offroad simulator, not some arcade mud driver.  Of course it also depends on the mud type.  ST's mud looks drier than this Russian mud, but even with that there's no way a half-buried truck would climb out of that IRL.

 

6 hours ago, oldman777 said:

And you've never seen Russian mud.

I have.  It's called YouTube.

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8 hours ago, DeltΔV said:

image.png.208b5049fdbdef3cc914aa5f1ad7216c.png

Redoing all the old maps would be a lot of work.  A better solution would be to change the global properties of mud, for example make trucks sink less, though I'd still like to see the occasional mud pit that the player should take care to avoid.  That option is already somewhat available by changing the PushResistance variable in media.xml.  You can increase it for less sinking, but it still needs some underlying code work to make trucks not twitch with higher values and to properly account for lower traction with increased mud depth.

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9 minutes ago, Unster said:

I have.  It's called YouTube.

On YouTube, dozens of types of mud are shown, in the game there are only a few. How to solve this discrepancy in the game?

Edited by oldman777
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33 minutes ago, oldman777 said:

On YouTube, dozens of types of mud are shown, in the game there are only a few. How to solve this discrepancy in the game?

This game has only one mud type.  It's not ideal, but that by itself isn't a problem.  Once the truck behavior in shallow mud is established and agreed upon, deep mud should behave accordingly, i.e. not the same.

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About redesign of old map. I think there is still problem with saves. You have to migrate old save data or do some hacks here. 
About mud ... it looks like limitation of chosen polygonal type of physics. I can imagine how realistic will be simulation based on particles ... but it is not easy to implement such thing ... I am not sure currently exists something like that. 

With current physics model we can only get simulation on the some level of precision. But it needs capturing of real conditions and real behavior ....

I mean

1. get the kamaz, K 700, Kraz or so on,
2. go to the forest, to the real mud, to the gravel, asphalt
3. do the measurement
a. how deep is mud, how much weight it can carry, what is consistency of mud
b. how different tires behaves on such mud
c. how motors behaves under the load (for example it will not spin tires on the asphalt on truck with weight 14 tons), each motor have characteristics for power and torque (I think this is ignored in game ... or maybe it's only my feeling)
4. transfer all this settings to the game, and tune tune tune and again tune.

This should be scientific work, with serious research. 

Between that there can be one or two modelers, who will create new maps, models etc for updates, to satisfy community. 

Currently scientific work is missing (or cannot be felt in game). Maybe there was some collaboration with SHERP team because SHEPR truck is quite good, but other stuff is just ignored as we can see on E167 B 80 etc ... Maybe this is question of money ... but even with small budget you can do nice things when management know what to do. 
But from the latest releases it looks like spin tires original left way of serious simulation ... every update brings some not realistic behavior and old bugs are not solved.

 

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On 8/16/2020 at 10:52 AM, Trackrod_ST said:

This is what I miss in 1 6 1.

The ability to rock your way out of a hole and the lack of decent steering lock, to swing the nose back and forth.

Hello! Your video got me thinking and I believe that if you take PressureLine's settings and up the substance friction back to 2.8 you can do that. I tried it with gaz-66 on the new Ural map. Seems pretty close to me. Version: 13.04.2015 had substance friction value of "3.2".  After watching your video now I find myself constantly trying to do that. Seems like a nifty little trick!

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2 hours ago, rarum said:

But from the latest releases it looks like spin tires original left way of serious simulation ... every update brings some not realistic behavior and old bugs are not solved.

I don't think it's intentional but just a by-product of a small team trying to revamp the game (and not doing enough testing).  But I know decent physics can be achieved with the present system.  It's already achieved in MudRunner, a sibling of this game.  I do have some tweaks there too, but nothing drastic.  Even the stock physics are quite decent.  Also, mud there is very noticeably firmer than in ST.  You can sink in places but not that far, and the difference to traction with mud depth is close to correct.  I have some tweaks to refine that further close to perfection.

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5 hours ago, Unster said:

A better solution would be to change the global properties of mud,

Isn't this what we've all been trying to do this whole time? That's pretty much what the <mud> section in media.xml is for, isn't it?

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48 minutes ago, DeltΔV said:

Isn't this what we've all been trying to do this whole time? That's pretty much what the <mud> section in media.xml is for, isn't it?

Yes, but those are just some of the parameters the game uses.  How the mud actually behaves is driven by the game's code, something only the devs have access to.

It would still be good to have some more mud variation put into the maps, but I meant that a good part of the solution could be making the mud less soft overall.  Of course I wouldn't want it hard everywhere.  Again, variation is good.

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