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Diff lock still scuffed


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4 minutes ago, Fairey Gannet said:

How did you managed to achieve that?

Oh you know, just driving through a muddy dirt road with diff lock engaged. But apparently I'm not allowed to do that.

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4 hours ago, Trackrod_ST said:

This feature as we know it, came out in Oct 2015. Before that, it was a point loss system, without throwing the lock out. (Hardcore only).

You get a red warning, which gives plenty of time to come out of lock.

.. 

Yes, and it's incredibly annoying to have to constantly switch it on and off every time you hit a tiny piece of dirt, unless you like stopping all the time. I've stopped playing hardcore because of it. You should only have to turn it off when you're on a road and turning under high load.

16 hours ago, Unster said:

Not really.  I don't see what the problem is.  Going too fast with the diff lock on?  I think that's been a feature from day one (unless you use a hardware shifter).

It's not about going too fast either. It happens even in gear 1, even going in a straight line, which if you know what a differential is, should not be the case.

The locked diff in the game is much too fragile and in my opinion it ruins the hardcore gameplay experience.

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2 hours ago, DeltΔV said:

The locked diff in the game is much too fragile and in my opinion it ruins the hardcore gameplay experience.

It is too fragile and I remember our earlier discussions about this.  No disagreement there.  Strangely, when using a hardware shifter there's no diff lock damage whatsoever, so we have these two extremes.  But initially I thought you were complaining about something else that was supposedly fixed in the last patch but wasn't.

For your situation, I can only recommend that you assign your diff lock to a button that's very handy, as you'll be pressing it a lot.  That's how I used to play this or MR before I got my shifter.

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2 minutes ago, Unster said:

For your situation, I can only recommend that you assign your diff lock to a button that's very handy, as you'll be pressing it a lot.

I do in fact own a wheel and shifter, but currently the force feedback from the game is not working (it works with other games) and, more importantly, my wheel takes up a lot of desk space so I don't use it too often. I'll check the force feedback again next time I use my wheel. Thanks for understanding. :) 

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45 minutes ago, DeltΔV said:

my wheel takes up a lot of desk space so I don't use it too often. I'll check the force feedback again next time I use my wheel. Thanks for understanding. :) 

Sure.  I take off my wheel & shifter and put it back on a few times a day, since I don't like the equipment in the way when I do stuff on my PC other than driving games.  Fortunately it's easy enough in my situation (I redesigned the attaching mechanism on my wheel after the original broke).

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The diff lock in game, has nothing to do with reality. It is a gameplay balancer and the change was introduced to compensate for other things that were made easier.

The shifter was assumed to be harder and therefore didn't need this balance.

Some people wanted it to be more difficult, such as permanent damage or stopping to re engage, but these were not implemented.

I have no problem with pushing a button when a red icon is flashed in my face. It's not that hard.

Better still. Anticipate the oncoming damage and take it out of lock. It adds to the overall gameplay.

..

Edited by Trackrod_ST
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21 hours ago, Trackrod_ST said:

The diff lock in game, has nothing to do with reality. It is a gameplay balancer and the change was introduced to compensate for other things that were made easier.

The shifter was assumed to be harder and therefore didn't need this balance.

Some people wanted it to be more difficult, such as permanent damage or stopping to re engage, but these were not implemented.

I have no problem with pushing a button when a red icon is flashed in my face. It's not that hard.

Better still. Anticipate the oncoming damage and take it out of lock. It adds to the overall gameplay.

..

It would appear that you have not seen this post:

This is my reasoning behind complaining about it, because it is very unrealistic at the moment. Sorry if it's too long.

TLDR: It's unrealistic and annoying

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Another issue is that without the diff-lock on, it's like to have an open diff so, as soon as the truck enters the mud, wheels start spinning loosing traction and one has to engage the diff lock or the truck will not traverse the mud, AWD is not enough most of the times. This leads to the annoying and unrealistic switching off and on.

A limited slip differential (when diff lock is off) behavior would preferable to the actual open differential so  one can traverse mud just with AWD and use diff lock only in extreme conditions.

Edited by Zukakis
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1 hour ago, Zukakis said:

A limited slip differential (when diff lock is off) behavior would preferable to the actual open differential so  one can traverse mud just with AWD and use diff lock only in extreme conditions.

Actually the game is already like that.  There's no open differential, every truck has limited slip.

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10 minutes ago, Zukakis said:

It looks like an open diff to me. If it's a limited one, then it's not limited enough, I doubt a real truck driver has to engage the diff lock every time a wheel touches the mud as we need to do in ST

 

It is definitely limited.  In mud, without diff lock on, look at all the powered wheels.  You'll see more than one spinning, especially if you apply more throttle (one may spin faster than others).  From my observation the need for diff lock is higher in MR than ST.

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Yes, MR needs diff lock more often than ST, but I still think a more limited diff lock would help.

 

3 hours ago, Zukakis said:

it's like to have an open diff

I want to say that the actual diff lock system "is like" an open diff when you drive, I don't mean it's an open diff, I saw what you described nevertheless it's too limited when playing the game and we need to lock the diff to exit the mud and disengage it as soon as we touch firm terrain.

 

Edited by Zukakis
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43 minutes ago, Unster said:

every truck has limited slip.

38 minutes ago, Zukakis said:

It looks like an open diff to me.

Well, whether it's open or not, the fact remains that it needs looking at, whether by making it more like a limited slip or making the damage more lenient. Personally I think my solution would be more effective because it would get rid of the unrealistic nature of it, and also it works in more situations (e.g. if there are patches of mud, even if the diff is very limited-slip, there will still be slip).

You know what, I wouldn't even mind if the system was kept as is, but the speed you need to go to break the diff was drastically increased, and/or load dependent. If the diff only started breaking at above, say, 20-30mph I wouldn't mind at all. The reason it's so annoying is that even in 1st gear, you can still upset it. So crawling through mixed terrain is very slow and annoying, and makes me wonder why the 1+ gear even exists.

You can't use it in mud because of wheel slip, and you can't use it anywhere else because the diff will explode. you may as well just use the auto mode, because the only benefit to using 1+ is that you go fast with the diff locked, which is exactly what you're not supposed to do, apparently.

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I wouldn't want the slipping nature of the current diff touched as I think it is fine the way it is.  I get by in mud just fine in many situation even without diff lock and AWD.  But by all means tone down the diff lock damage (which doesn't affect me because of the shifter).  This was discussed months ago, but I guess it hasn't been a high priority for Zane to address.  I actually don't think there's any need to have diff lock damage at all.  Diff lock already penalizes you by limiting your turning radius.

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We can also argue, that diff option doesn't actually makes a distinction between central differential and interaxial differential.  I mean I think diffs with AWD are both centre and interaxial, and with AWD off, it is just interaxial rear, but then again - not every truck was fitted with both solutions.

Edited by Fairey Gannet
Typos.
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@Fairey GannetYes, that's another area where the game departs from reality somewhat, but that's another topic.  For example I'm quite sure the B-130 didn't have a diff lock in real life (in MR it doesn't).  But that doesn't bother me as much as some of the flaws in physics (like highway tires performing just as good or better than offroad tires).  You could pretend that a B-130 with diff lock was just some special factory option or an aftermarket upgrade.

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1 hour ago, Unster said:

@Fairey GannetYes, that's another area where the game departs from reality somewhat, but that's another topic.  For example I'm quite sure the B-130 didn't have a diff lock in real life (in MR it doesn't).  But that doesn't bother me as much as some of the flaws in physics (like highway tires performing just as good or better than offroad tires).  You could pretend that a B-130 with diff lock was just some special factory option or an aftermarket upgrade.

@UnsterIf I would want to sound harsh and cynical, I would say, that I paid full price so I don't have to pretend over inconsistencies. It's a way around the problem that shouldn't exist. ;) But you're right, stock Zil 130 didn't had differential lock. However it had nice qualities for dirt roads, moderate mud, gravel and such, not to mention non-freezing petrol, quality hard to describe in-game that doesn't support fuel-freezing. That made this sturdy lorry so widespread, despite it was very thirsty - up to 55 liters/100 km, tractor with coupling and semi-trailer could consume even more. I guess lack of diff would render this lorry useless, basing on the current in-game mechanics, so it is game balance here.

 

To look on the bright side, Zil 130 now has diff option but maybe there will be a solution that would made this car more worthy without having one? I don't mention MR here at all, but since you mentioned it - B-130 there is rubbish. What I think, problem is that there are vehicles, we wouldn't call off-road, but are still capable. Maybe some in-game tweaking would be nice? Then we could have some non-AWD, non-diff-locked options, that would be both challenging and viable. But it is just food for thoughts, and a little bit off-topic. 

 

Anyway, it would be nice to have some difference between central/axial diffs, as it would made both existing and upcoming lorries more diverse.

Edited by Fairey Gannet
Typos, little modification of text.
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24 minutes ago, Fairey Gannet said:

I guess lack of diff would render this lorry useless, basing on the in-game mechanics, so it is game balance here.

It's definitely game balance with the B-130 diff, but I'd be fine without it.  Like I said in MR this truck doesn't have diff lock, and I still like it as do others who enjoy the challenge.  It's actually not that bad, especially once you load the back with some logs.  The high fuel consumption IRL probably has to do with the engine being 2-cycle and generally being an old engine as those were much less efficient than modern engines.

Edited by Unster
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17 minutes ago, Unster said:

It's definitely game balance with the B-130 diff, but I'd be fine without it.  Like I said in MR this truck doesn't have diff lock, and I still like it as do others who enjoy the challenge.  It's actually not that bad, especially once you load the back with some logs.  The high fuel consumption IRL probably has to do with the engine being 2-cycle and generally being an old engine as those were much less efficient than modern engines.

@UnsterYeah, I like that lorry also, one of my favourites in fact. That's why I pointed out in separate thread commited to ideas, that the Zil family could use some more variation with add-ons, crane for example, making them more unique and self-dependable. Right now, we have to agree, that if you have 2-star limit, there is no reason, other than self-destructive behaviour, to pick B-133 over B-131. Both can do the same, but one is just better all around. Not to mention newest 2-star additions, that render previous counterparts dubious choice.

And yes, Zil petrol engine was quite... basic, but it had this non-freezing petrol edge over the diesel counterparts. It was also maintenance-heavy, but simple, so it had its own niche. Variations of Zil 130 speaks for themselves, and in volumes.

Backing down to main topic, diff-locks, division between centre/axial would be nice to have. I also have a feeling that diffs in the game are quite forgiving and hard to break, even under a lot of stress coming from the load or steep incline. While not na bad feature, maybe there should be another difficulty level, that could integrate more advanced options in the future, or just user defined one, where we could pick options to our liking. Still, I think, there should be more realism-focused ones, combined with user-defined level settings.

Edited by Fairey Gannet
Typos.
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