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At first I thought the much longer winch line was nice but now I feel it makes the game a little too easy.  I like having to be cautions where I drive and having to rescue my truck sometimes, but instead I can winch my way out of a sticky situation most of the time.  I would suggest perhaps shortening the line by 1/3.  What do others think?

Also, I don't think we should be able to attach the winch to fallen trees.  IRL they would provide very little towing support.  Another way to add realism would be to remove the rigid anchor that fallen trees have so when you attach a winch to them they don't help you much and they'd also be easier to push out of the way to clear roads if needed.

Another suggestion: make the winch line wrap around trees which would also add visual realism.  Currently the winch line is just "nailed" to the trees.  I don't think that would work IRL.

Edited by Unster

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Thanks for your feedback. 

We did a poll on Facebook not long ago about whether we should shorten the winch and the results came in with a quite clear “no” as the majority. 

I think you’ll come to realise that the longer winch is needed when we begin to work in the next iteration of the weather system which will make the mud a lot more difficult to traverse whilst wet. 

We also discussed internally about winch lines snapping off of smaller trees etc  

The next batch of maps we make will also take into account the longer winch line. 

I agree that we shouldn’t be able to winch to fallen trees or at least the fallen tree shouldn’t provide much anchor. I’ll look into that along with wrapping the line around trees. 

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1 hour ago, Unster said:

At first I thought the much longer winch line was nice but now I feel it makes the game a little too easy.  I like having to be cautions where I drive and having to rescue my truck sometimes, but instead I can winch my way out of a sticky situation most of the time.  I would suggest perhaps shortening the line by 1/3.  What do others think?

Also, I don't think we should be able to attach the winch to fallen trees.  IRL they would provide very little towing support.  Another way to add realism would be to remove the rigid anchor that fallen trees have so when you attach a winch to them they don't help you much and they'd also be easier to push out of the way to clear roads if needed.

Another suggestion: make the winch line wrap around trees which would also add visual realism.  Currently the winch line is just "nailed" to the trees.  I don't think that would work IRL.

 

If someone would have asked me, the double winch would never made it into the game. If you want more winch in the stock game, give +25% more winch or +50% maximum, i say ok... but +100% its like a cheat. I think this change was overly enthusiastic ... OR it needs something to balance it out.

 

If you have realistic winch lenghth you need more realistic winch points to mount.

- The winch should "snap" off from fallen trees if too much weight is on it, it should work for UAZ but fallen tree is not the fixed point in space that can lever the globe from its position. So you do not have to code the tree moving around and to avoid the gameplay broblems that may come with it, just have the cable snap off from the tree very easy and it will be no use.

- Small trees and young trees should be just that, not a lot of help for trucks. They break off. May work once or twice for 6x6 but large 8x8 just break the tree if they get stuck.

So you limited to large trees, not sure what to do with those, can not limit these realisticly i think.

 

EDIT: i see you plan to balance it, you post while i type, maybe you could have introduced the 100% more winch along with the balancing, and not one after the other, right now its kinda not so good ;)

Edited by Actionjackson*
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1 hour ago, Unster said:

At first I thought the much longer winch line was nice but now I feel it makes the game a little too easy.  I like having to be cautions where I drive and having to rescue my truck sometimes, but instead I can winch my way out of a sticky situation most of the time.  I would suggest perhaps shortening the line by 1/3.  What do others think?

Also, I don't think we should be able to attach the winch to fallen trees.  IRL they would provide very little towing support.  Another way to add realism would be to remove the rigid anchor that fallen trees have so when you attach a winch to them they don't help you much and they'd also be easier to push out of the way to clear roads if needed.

Another suggestion: make the winch line wrap around trees which would also add visual realism.  Currently the winch line is just "nailed" to the trees.  I don't think that would work IRL.

100% Agree. Most for the fallen trees to be free from the ground.

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I like the longer winch line and I disagree that a 100% longer line is a cheat, its not cheating in real life to get a longer winch, in fact if anything its probably the most logical thing to do. 

I made most of the trees have a lower breakpoint so I can only winch off of a select few trees depending on what vehicle I am in at the time. It definitely makes it a lot more challenging. 

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I think the winch needs some »cooldown« time …

At the moment winching for the most people works like: click - winch - click - winch -click - winch - click - winch … hooray, I'm free …

In real life using the winch takes some time … pulling out the line, fix it, etc.

So why not adding for example 60 seconds cooldown time until you can use the winch again?

Edited by Dexter Paris
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3 minutes ago, Dexter Paris said:

60 seconds cooldown time until you can use the winch again?

Maybe it could be dependent on how far the winch was connected to simulate the time to hook up the winch?

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Better yet, make the driver come out of the truck and attach the winch himself.  This would prevent winch overuse. :)

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10 hours ago, Zane (Oovee) said:

Thanks for your feedback. 

We did a poll on Facebook not long ago about whether we should shorten the winch and the results came in with a quite clear “no” as the majority.

Interesting.  But I wonder if the community on Facebook is different and maybe more casual than on this forum?  Why Facebook anyway?  I don't want to have to create a Facebook account just to participate in meaningful discussions and input on Spintires.  It's been some people's observations, at least in MudRunner, that the loudest voices are often the casual, newbie type, who pick up the game, complain, and then move on to something else, so I'd take any Facebook poll with a grain of salt.  But I understand what you're saying about the game balancing.  If the mud becomes harder and there are fewer stable winch points to use, then the current length would be OK.

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@Unster As much as I'd tell Zuckerberg to Zuck my berg, FB is a bit more ubiquitous nowadays and probably a more accessible way for a larger audience to be engaged with, so from a pure exposure perspective it works. For now. Hopefully it doesn't devolve into the veritable shatshow that most Steam forums do...

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1 hour ago, Mexican_420 said:

@Unster As much as I'd tell Zuckerberg to Zuck my berg, FB is a bit more ubiquitous nowadays and probably a more accessible way for a larger audience to be engaged with, so from a pure exposure perspective it works. For now. Hopefully it doesn't devolve into the veritable shatshow that most Steam forums do...

I know.  I understand companies need to have a presence on FB and other popular social media sites, but they also need to understand not everyone is on those or wants to be.  I prefer game-specific forums like this one.

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The poll could be here and they could publish on FB just a link to the poll here in the forum so they can have the opinion of who is not on facebook too.

About the winch line, if we want Spintires to be a simulation or as close to reality as possible, this should be the parameter to be used in game when it comes to make a choice like this, I think.

Personally, I like the longer line, when I was playing MR (I stopped since I bought ST 😁) I always wanted a longer line because I found the short line not realistic. Usually I tend to roleplay too, so I try my best to exit from a sticky situation by manouvering or using another truck to pull the other out and, as a last chance, the winch. People who use winch too much probably should play Spiderman.

Now, I am very curious about this:

Quote

I think you’ll come to realise that the longer winch is needed when we begin to work in the next iteration of the weather system which will make the mud a lot more difficult to traverse whilst wet

👍

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1 hour ago, Zukakis said:

Personally, I like the longer line, when I was playing MR (I stopped since I bought ST 😁)

👍

Same here (regarding playing MR).  Isn't it funny that ST used to be the dead game and that's why I bought MR a year ago, but now it's pretty much the other way.  ST is seeing major changes while MR has become stagnant other than the occasional DLC with a new map and 2 trucks added but no major change except for the scavange mode added with one of the DLC's, and now even the DLC's have come to an end for that game.

Anyway, back to the winch line, I'm not that much into self-control via role-playing and I'll use the game's features as they're available, so I prefer the game reasonably restricting me instead of having to voluntarily restrict myself. :)

Edited by Unster
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Winch line length really varies in real life depending on the owner and their setup on their truck. In real life all these trucks would carry differing lengths of winch cable. Could be 40 feet or 100 feet or literally any length. There is no set limit really. Then there are winch extension straps and portable winch land anchors. In reality people don't like getting their rigs stuck.

Perhaps in spintires, winch cable length could be an adjustable value in the options menu. Or perhaps, depending on how much work they want to dedicate to this idea, it could be adjustable for every truck in the truck selection screen with perhaps lighter vehicles carrying shorter winch cables and bigger vehicles carrying longer, and even some with no winch cables depending on how much the user wants to challenge (or punish) themselves.

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Another observation about winching.  When trying to tow a vehicle, the game doesn't allow you to select winch points on the towed vehicle that aren't facing the rescue vehicle.  That's good and realistic I think.  But the same restriction doesn't apply when winching yourself.  You can select your rear winch point and tow yourself forward.  This doesn't seem right, especially when the winch line goes through the truck, so I'd say the same restriction should apply there.

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I vastly prefer the longer winch length myself. I would also like to be able to winch loose logs, sometimes it's just incredibly difficult to get them out of where they've fallen if you tip a truck or if they're just spawned on the map, I would love to be able to drag them around.

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2 hours ago, Slywyn said:

I vastly prefer the longer winch length myself. I would also like to be able to winch loose logs, sometimes it's just incredibly difficult to get them out of where they've fallen if you tip a truck or if they're just spawned on the map, I would love to be able to drag them around.

But to realistically drag logs you'd need a skidder or some sort of grabbing mechanism.  A winch line wouldn't really work for that purpose.

Edited by Unster

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43 minutes ago, Unster said:

But to realistically drag logs you'd need a skidder or some sort of grabbing mechanism.  A winch line wouldn't really work for that purpose.

For a short-range drag, you could wrap a line around. Would it work well? No. But just to get it into a slightly better position to grab? Definitely.

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1 minute ago, Slywyn said:

For a short-range drag, you could wrap a line around. Would it work well? No. But just to get it into a slightly better position to grab? Definitely.

Maybe, but that brings up another topic: the lack of collision between trees and logs.  This collision should be enabled, so logs don't roll away too far from the truck if it flips.  And if that's the case, you probably won't need or want to pull logs with the winch.

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6 minutes ago, Unster said:

Maybe, but that brings up another topic: the lack of collision between trees and logs.  This collision should be enabled, so logs don't roll away too far from the truck if it flips.  And if that's the case, you probably won't need or want to pull logs with the winch.

I have noticed that the logs don't collide with the trees, but I have to wonder if that's just a limit of the physics engine or if they're programmed to avoid each other. I don't actually know.

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3 hours ago, Slywyn said:

I have noticed that the logs don't collide with the trees, but I have to wonder if that's just a limit of the physics engine or if they're programmed to avoid each other. I don't actually know.

It's neither.  It's just that a collision check between logs and trees isn't performed.  Maybe it was disabled at some point on purpose but with so many improvements going into the engine now there's no reason not to put this collision check in.

Edited by Unster
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On 5/8/2019 at 10:52 AM, Dexter Paris said:

I think the winch needs some »cooldown« time …

At the moment winching for the most people works like: click - winch - click - winch -click - winch - click - winch … hooray, I'm free …

In real life using the winch takes some time … pulling out the line, fix it, etc.

So why not adding for example 60 seconds cooldown time until you can use the winch again?

 

While i was merrily winching along one of these rocky creeks that are in the Biverrig map ( @NTSR Terrific map! ) with my loaded c255, i had time to contemplate on the ideal winch length that should exist, in order to be one with the Spintires universe. ;)

While i did that i got hung up on yet another rock cause i did not look and i thought, i could get off it with driving if i tried for a bit, but "Meh" that just waste fuel and its hardcore mode, lets use the winch clean and easy.

While clean and easy, i am not sure that is the way to go. Rarely something is clean and easy in offroad. While i think 60 seconds would annoy too many people, but 15-20 seconds for a start would be "ok" i think for most. It would remove->

 

- Winching straight up things,  by "hanging" on the winch. If you use it once its on cooldown now and no more winch for XX seconds.

- Winching along repeatedly to save fuel or to circumvent "driving it"(in a driving game!)

 

Now, a cooldown for the winch sound stupid if you hear it, but it kind makes sense, someone has to get out and do all that cable stuff. 15 to 20 seconds is just a bit to make the winch behave a bit more winch-like and not let it be the godlike solution to all your problems.

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