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@Localhost.  I believe that I may have found the problem.  I have the first release of v7 installed and the "SuspensionTunableInWheelsSets" feature appears to be broken.  Now just to be sure that I had replaced all files when I upgraded from v5 to v7, I reinstalled v7 fresh and still the wheels didn't change.  But when I upgraded to v8b2, it started working.  Was this something that got fixed in later builds?

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I had not checked the changelog once I upgraded to v7.  So I see this was a confirmed issue and was fixed in v7hf1.  I had v7 that whole time.  I guess maybe I should have mentioned that from the beginning?

 

Anyway, I've been using v8b2 for a little while now and so far, so good.  I haven't really played with the new menus yet, but I will soon enough.  Loving the new icons in the external minimap!!  There is something that I have been noticing lately though.  Is it normal for bigger / wider tires to have less traction in mud then smaller / thinner tires?  Watching a monster truck sitting still while the tires are spinning in the mud.  And at the same time, a default UAZ cruises right on by in the same mud the monster truck is stuck in.   It's laughable to say the least.

Edited by Sandmansa

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I had v7 that whole time.  I guess maybe I should have mentioned that from the beginning?

Tbh if you had said "I'm using v7" I would have understood "I'm using v7hf2", so it probably wouldn't have changed anything.

 

Is it normal for bigger / wider tires to have less traction in mud then smaller / thinner tires?

Bregel PM'd about this a while back but I haven't looked into it yet. Meanwhile you can work around this by giving numerical (substance)friction values.

 

BTW: alt-tab support in v8b2 is broken when the minimap is used. This will be fixed in the next release.

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Sandmansa, on 07 Aug 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:snapback.png

Is it normal for bigger / wider tires to have less traction in mud then smaller / thinner tires?

Bregel PM'd about this a while back but I haven't looked into it yet. Meanwhile you can work around this by giving numerical (substance)friction values.

 

I was going to ask you about the same thing I had a 64 dually with grip issues too (it's for a massive tractor)

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Bregel PM'd about this a while back but I haven't looked into it yet. Meanwhile you can work around this by giving numerical (substance)friction values.

 

BTW: alt-tab support in v8b2 is broken when the minimap is used. This will be fixed in the next release.

 

Changing numerical substance friction values has almost no effect on big tires on mud.  Even at 3.0, it still looks like a paddle wheel boat at full steam, still tied to the dock.  lol   You have to shift into low 1 just to get moving again.  Now changing numerical friction values on big tires has a very noticeable effect on hard surfaces.

 

I did notice the minimap issue last night.  Also, it seems to crash the game on startup the first time you enable it.  But after that one time, you can enable / disable at will with no issues.

Edited by Sandmansa

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ST+ v8 beta3 here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ez4tj95io87m7ln/SpintiresPlus_v8b3.zip

changes since beta2:

-fixed a bunch of bugs in the minimap (alt-tab related, and basic directx usage).

-disabled lightning for my menus, alpha blending for their previews,

-added HandleCursorWithoutDirectX and CustomizableTrailerBreakoffForce.

-fixed the unwinch key not working for trailer winches.

 

@ninjamoses: try HandleCursorWithoutDirectX, do you STILL lose your cursor?

 

@Laucks: do you still get very dark previews? Frankly I don't know what's causing this so I'm fumbling in the dark there.

Edited by Localhost

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Localhost.

 

I have been playing with the wheel settings lately and I have been noticing something unexpected.  Using this setting for street tires, I get great traction on any surface.  Rock, pavement, dirt road and deep mud.

	Friction_Numeric="2.5"
	SubstanceFriction_Numeric="1.0"

But if I use the following settings on a equal sized offroad tire, I seem to get far less traction (compared to the above settings) on any surface.

	Friction_Numeric="1.0"
	SubstanceFriction_Numeric="2.5"

Now, if I try ramping it up (so to speak) with the following settings, I wind up with great traction on any surface, sure.  And as an added bonus, insane levels of fuel consumption.  In the tune if 160+ L/pm in top gear.

	Friction_Numeric="2.5"
	SubstanceFriction_Numeric="2.5"

I've noticed this in ST+ v7 and v8b2.  Is there something else I should be looking for while I am trying to fine tune my wheels traction settings?  Or would this be something that needs farther attention?

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@Sandmansa: there is a difference between being over deep mud and being inside it.

When you are OVER and your wheels have not started digging, hard friction (Friction_Numeric) is still used. Substance friction starts being used when your wheels have dug inside the mud.

If you keep moving forward (ex: due to momentum) once inside the mud and a wheel touches a tiny bit of virgin mud, I suspect hard friction will still be used for that wheel.

It looks like hard friction was being used in all your tests, I suggest you try SubstanceFriction_Numeric="0" and see where it is actually used (when your truck stops, substance friction is being used).

 

As for fuel consumption, it increases with substance friction to the power 4, and yes, hard friction isn't taken into account, at least not directly. Formula is something like:

-if a wheel isn't powered or if it has torque=full, it does not affect fuel consumption (regardless of awd state)
-for all remaining wheels, sum 0.0026*wheel angvel*(SubstanceFriction ^ 4)
-multiply by 1.8 if diff type=always
-ADD max torque for this gear * 2e-6 ( * 2.2 if awd is on )
 (max torque=what you put in the xml if gear angvel<2; it's 125% xml value in high gear, else it's xml value/sqrt(gear angvel) )
-multiply by "rpm headroom": 1.0 at 0 rpm, decreasing to 0 as engine rpm increases
-multiply by accel pedal ratio (1.0=pedal to metal, 0 not touching)
-multiply by 0.6 if in casual mode or by 1.0 if hardcore (the point of doing an x1 multiplication...).
-didn't investigate further.

 

(This post describes the behavior of the base game, those parts are currently unaltered by ST+ except for skid steering vehicles who have a slightly different fuel consumption formula)

 

PS: consider upgrading to v8b3.

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Okay.  I understand that your trying to explain what is suppose to be happening, but I don't understand what these mathematical equations are suppose to mean.

 

Taking your suggestions, I first upgraded to v8b3.  With stock street tires on, I went into the deepest mud I can find and tried to get stuck.  Got out of game.  Changed the values to this.

	Friction_Numeric="3.0"
	SubstanceFriction_Numeric="0"

 I got back in game and proceeded to drive right out of that mud to the pavement.  There was some wheel spin but it was not difficult to do so.  I backed the truck up to where I was suck before, then got out of the game again.  Changed the values to this.

	Friction_Numeric="0"
	SubstanceFriction_Numeric="3.0"

Got back in game and this time, it plowed right through the mud like it wasn't even there.  But as soon as I hit pavement, the truck slid across it like I was on a sheet of ice.  And kept on sliding across the grassy field.  I couldn't stop or steer, until I hit a tree.  That was fun for a minute there.  lol

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I don't understand what these mathematical equations are suppose to mean.

Those aren't equations, lol, but anyway the oversimplified version is "Increasing substance friction a tiny bit increases fuel consumption a lot".

 

Aside that, doing more tests I can confirm that hard friction seems to have an effect even when chassis-deep inside mud, and that effect increases with wheel mass. With 5t wheels and 0 substance friction there is no noticeable difference between swamps and highways.

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 I can confirm that hard friction seems to have an effect even when chassis-deep inside mud, and that effect increases with wheel mass. With 5t wheels and 0 substance friction there is no noticeable difference between swamps and highways.

 

That's what I have been noticing all along.  So is this something you can correct?

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Probably not. Unlike substance friction, hard friction is handled by havok itself, and I won't rewrite havok.

 

I'll probably have a shot at the drag force added to wide tires for v9, which basically means changing how substance friction affects wheels, and if I see any hard friction in the calculation I'll see if it makes sense there, but a hunch tells me the effect of hard friction comes from elsewhere.

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SpintiresPlus v8 has been released.

 

This time we have:

STPControlledConstraints: requested by stetson. Allows ST+ to drive some constraints using player-defined keys, and without requiring to go in the advanced menu. Initially it was meant to create independant rear steering, where you would use 2 extra keys to steer rear wheels (in this setup you would rotate the wheel's parent frame).

FasterFileAccess: own volition, makes all files accesses a bit faster which is particularly noticable when the game has to enumerate a lot of files (like all trucks or all addons) IOW: on the truck and garage menus. Tbh, I looked into this because I had speed issues with the new menus, it worked pretty well: the time to open the new truck menu went from 1250ms to 300ms (with ~35 trucks).

ExternalMinimap: added icons for key locations (sandmansa's request) and used autodetection instead of the MinimapAdapter parameter. Note that if you don't like the icons, you can use your own.

CustomizableTrailerBreakoffForce: requested by freeman. Allows you to define how much your trailer can withstand befor detaching. Note that in the vanilla game, the truck-trailer constraint simply has an hardcoded BreakoffThreshold of 16000.

AlternateMapMenu: requested by axeracing. Replaces the map menu with a scrollable, searchable, and sortable one.

ScrollableMapMenu: removed. Use AlternateMapMenu instead.

AlternateTruckMenu: requested by Fredrik_Eriksson. This replaces the truck selection menu (the one with 3d previews).
It doesn't display 3d rotating previews of trucks, which makes it a hecaton faster, but still shows the "billboard" image which is enough imo. It also has the advantage of allowing startup addon, trailer, and wheelset selection. Oh and it's sortable btw, which was the original request.

Beware that enabling the alt truck menu automatically replaces the map menu. I need this because truck selection resets when you change maps.

SelectStartupAddons: removed. Use AlternateTruckMenu instead.

HandleCursorWithoutDirectX: additional UNCONFIRMED fix for the invisible cursor bug. Try this if DPIIndependentCursorSize doesn't help. I'd appreciate if someone with cursor issues could report if it actually works.

Bugfixes:
-Crash when unmounting a gearbox addon while driving and using a gear exclusive to that addon. Pretty much you're driving in 6th gear, then suddenly change to a gearbox that has no 6th gear but you're still in 6th -> boom (array overflow). Now you reset to neutral on gearbox change.
-ReleaseWinchKey not working for trailer winches.

 

If you get very dark previews in the new menus it is a bug that you should report. Normally previews have the same brightness as with the default menus.

  • Like 5

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When I try to start up Spintires with Spintires Plus v8 installed,the game just crashes to desktop.

 

Reverting back to Spintires Plus v7hf2 fixes the crashing problem,but I really wanted the new features that were added in v8.

 

Any ideas on how to fix this problem?

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I had the same problem. Make sure you set minimap to false. I think that is only for people with a secondary monitor. I lucked upon it in settings and it was defaulted to true for some reason.

 

Change it to false your should be good!

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An hotfix has been pushed for those with single monitor systems and minimap issues.

 

Also would like to remind people that they are supposed to read the FAQ section on the download page as well as the documentation, especially in case of trouble. Yes it's long, but I didn't type it so that people can enjoy skipping it.

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Tempting, but somehow I'm not sure they'd find the mediafire link if the green download button was removed.

And noticing the installation instructions in the process - who ho ho - I'm dreaming there.

Edited by Localhost

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I doubt this is related to ST+, but I can't think of another solution. My game will not allow me to load logs in any trucks. When I stop in a lumber zone, the load menu appears but the "load up" button remains greyed-out no matter which log type I select. I don't understand what could be happening. I have tried loading using trucks that I know have logging capabilities, like the stock Ural, but I can't get any of them to load. Maybe I accidentally switched something in ST+?

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Maybe I accidentally switched something in ST+?

Simplest AND fastest way to check that is to uninstall ST+ and see if the problem persists.

 

My game will not allow me to load logs in any trucks. When I stop in a lumber zone, the load menu appears but the "load up" button remains greyed-out no matter which log type I select. I don't understand what could be happening. I have tried loading using trucks that I know have logging capabilities, like the stock Ural, but I can't get any of them to load.

It's an issue I've had quite often with poorly written mods and especially non-workshop mods: the mod comes with with files named load_logs_short.xml, load_logs_medium.xml, or load_logs_long.xml which overwrite the default loads so that they require the carriage from that mod or whatever it uses to carry loads.

 

Simplest solution is to uninstall all your mods, and then restore them one by one until you find the culprit(s). Keep in mind that some maps come with some modded trucks that might aswell contain the bug.

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Simplest AND fastest way to check that is to uninstall ST+ and see if the problem persists.

 

It's an issue I've had quite often with poorly written mods and especially non-workshop mods: the mod comes with with files named load_logs_short.xml, load_logs_medium.xml, or load_logs_long.xml which overwrite the default loads so that they require the carriage from that mod or whatever it uses to carry loads.

 

Simplest solution is to uninstall all your mods, and then restore them one by one until you find the culprit(s). Keep in mind that some maps come with some modded trucks that might aswell contain the bug.

That last bit was the problem. I remember installing some maps with extra .xml's, so I just deleted the entire models folder out of my media directory. Problem is solved. Thank you!

 

On a related note, I've had other issues with workshop mods causing attachments/addons to appear in trucks that don't use them. Several of my mods have attachments that will actually appear in the list of attachments for many other trucks, though they can't be used. It's quite annoying. I've weeded out all of the offending mods that have caused these issues, but what actually causes the problem? You'd think the attachments would be specific to the truck they were designed for.

 

For example, I had an attachment called "Big pricep" that would appear in almost all of my 3 axle truck's attachment lists. I could even attach it to some of them. I eventually found the mod that had it, "TUNGUS" and had to unsubscribe to fix it.

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On a related note, I've had other issues with workshop mods causing attachments/addons to appear in trucks that don't use them. Several of my mods have attachments that will actually appear in the list of attachments for many other trucks

This is a normal and desirable behavior, notably with mods that only contain a trailer which is made to be used on all other trucks. Similarly someone could make an addon compilation and upload it to the workshop.

 

...though they can't be used.

That's the weird part. I took the "Big pricep" you mentioned and it works on my basic kraz and ural. According to its xml it was designed to work on any truck that can tow the basic carts, and it seems to be exactly what it does.

If the modder had wanted to make this trailer specific to his mod, he should have put his trailed on -say- the MyCoolTungusTrailerCart socket instead of the KamazTrailerCart socket that every truck has.

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This is a normal and desirable behavior, notably with mods that only contain a trailer which is made to be used on all other trucks. Similarly someone could make an addon compilation and upload it to the workshop.

 

That's the weird part. I took the "Big pricep" you mentioned and it works on my basic kraz and ural. According to its xml it was designed to work on any truck that can tow the basic carts, and it seems to be exactly what it does.

If the modder had wanted to make this trailer specific to his mod, he should have put his trailed on -say- the MyCoolTungusTrailerCart socket instead of the KamazTrailerCart socket that every truck has.

I misspoke. Meant to say that they don't usually work. The big pricep is an exception. I guess I just don't like "contaminating" other trucks with one truck's addons. I like them to be contained to themselves and keep each addon menu clean. So it's just that they've specified a generic bone in the trailer xml for its attachment point?

 

Also, back on topic, is it possible to mess with rock, tree, and fallen tree mass and physics characteristics? Trees are so ridiculously strong in ST, as are their fallen counterparts. Rocks don't sink and can beach anything that happens to cross them. Would be nice to be able to control their behavior.

Edited by sevin

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